( Audio Post ) - Have The Self-Help Police Arrived? December 7, 2007
Posted by Barry & Heather in : News Updates , trackbackRichard Bach, author of Jonathan Livingston Seagull wrote:
“If it’s never our fault, we can’t take responsibility for it. If we can’t take responsibility for it, we’ll always be its victim.”
Yet, still, there will always be people in this world who feel it’s their duty to be the defender, or savior, of somebody else’s responsibility.
And, when that kind of “Big Brother thinking” crosses into the self-help / spiritual-growth arena, it’s time to stand up and start the charge for commentary on how this can, or can not, be of value to you.
Listen to our 15-minute audio here:
… and then make your comments known by clicking the “comments” link above
Comments»
Way to go, Barry and Heather!
I wonder what this guy’s life look’s like…
Oh, by the way, he’s using powerful unconscious mind control in his copywriting.
Look at those emotionally charged words in his article titles!
Self-Help’s “Slimy” Secret
“The Secret” - Does Self-Help Really Help?
“The Secret” Exposed
Without Two Important Principles “The Secret” Won’t Benefit You
Critical Analysis of “The Secret”
Bravo!
Ted Ciuba
Author “The NEW Think and Grow Rich”
You are doing a stellar job Barry and Heather, keep on the good work. your interviews are so full of gems and incisive questions. You are providing a much needed resource.
As for John Curtis, he obviously posted a controversial comment to attract traffic to his website, which is catering to the ratbag elements that are only happy when they can criticise. His comments only reflect the screwed-up thinking that can result of “going cold turkey” like he suggests and think for yourself, without expert guidance. We all should think for ourselves, but listen to the guidance and tools offered by those wiser souls who know what they are talking about. John Curtis is obviously not one of them. Who is the fraud then?
Hi Heather and Barry…
Well I guess there has always got to be people around who have a huge need to question anything that is positive, empowering, warm and fuzzy, creating harmony, and all that stuff.
I guess that means he wouldn’t believe in Father Christmas?… I wonder what kind of things he would let his children believe in… if he had any.
Kind of sad really.
Jeanne
http://www.aspirationsplus.com
Hi guys. I just want to say I thank God for these lovely women that can bring in the female hormone and cool our savage maleness. I think this guy really struck a cord in Barry, kind of got him into a rant, and Heather just smoothed it all out for him, and us. I love what you guys do, and I know in my heart it’s all working for the betterment of us all. Now, some people just don’t like that, and we will have to hear from them to, I guess.
The bottom line is: we’re all creating/procreating 24/7 irrespective of to whatever degree we may be aware of this fact. Ultimately noone else but we ourselves can take the responsibility for this and I feel it’s an all or nothing thing. Most of us are very afraid of this fact, but in practice in turns out that when we deeply accept this responsibility 100% it’s not crushing us but actually enlightening and liberating us. The buck not only stops here, it starts here.
cheers!
I think from a psycological perspective this guy was a victim at one point in his life. More than likely during his childhood. I agree with Heather about being more childlike in our approach to life. I recall saying that very thing to my taekwondo instructor once and he had this dumbfounded look on his face, so I knew he just didn’t understand.
I think we all know parents who taint their childrens beliefs to one degree or another. Its not just parents either. If you find yourself watching the news, it portrays the world as a scary place. I think fear is at the core.
I didn’t bother looking at his site but I wonder this. Is he trying to save others? or is he really trying to save himself?
“What you give your attention to expands” so let us simply let this guy go his own misguided way and we will continue to grow through our resonance to our own personal growth. I always and in all ways ignore naysayers - my plan for my life is too precious to give my attention to anything leading away from only the best of the best - you all! And it would be a good idea to NOT go to his website as that is just sending your energy in the wrong direction.
I never really paid much attention to your emails before, but I did open this one, (hmmm). I listened to a bit of your post, glanced at the afore mentioned website. It’s too bad.
Too bad someone is trying to make a profit (my opinion), by warning us Americans against something that has value, just because it does not “work” for everyone.
It’s funny that he uses “Americans” in the name of his “organization”. I thought America was built on our freedom of choice and freedom of speech.
Jack Roberts
“The Dean of Affirmations”
at1with.blogspot.com
I agree - the victim mentality doesn’t help. And what sense does it make to defend the conditions that a person stuck? It’s like peeing in the wind
I think the American philosopher Bart Simpson said it best when he said “I didn’t do it! Nobody saw me do it” You can’t prove a thing!”
On the other hand, there is a lot of “pie in sky” thinking that gets banded about in this field. Folks would be wise to take responsibility for making sure claims are accurate and truly in their best interests.
Be happy,
Matt
I commend you for speaking out.
Whenever an idea or concept manifests that empowers individuals to improve their quality of life, more pressure is felt by those who are unwilling to do so. These ‘victims’ have convinced themselves that ’something’ more powerful and beyond their control is causing them to be stuck in whatever misery they may be experiencing.
They require people like John Curtis with ‘information’ like he is providing to relieve this persistent pressure to take responsibility for their lives - to help them justify their ‘illusion of powerlessness’.
They need John Curtis and he needs them to further his agenda. They need and deserve each other.
Those of us who choose to accept responsibility for our lives willingly embrace the knowledge of the ‘truth that makes us free’.
Press on!
A person that seeks to better themselves and their life, is not a kool-aid drinker, a lemming…a “sheeple”. I know what some go through as they work to improve. It can be a hard row to hoe. You can sometimes feel that you aren’t making any progress. I can relate. While at this point in my journey, I am encountering much inner resistance. But I know it’s only so much garbage that will get dumped eventually; because I personally have manifested in my life like crazy!
Some things happened before I ever knew about all this stuff…I’m talking the early 70’s. And since 1991 I have living, breathing proof (in the form of a beautiful horse) of the reality of manifestating one’s hopes and dreams. It wasn’t even that difficult. I suppose back then I didn’t know I couldn’t.
So if this guy wants to be negative, it’s on him and those that allow themselves to be dragged down with him. I agree with Lorraine and I’m not going to waste time on his website either, life is too short.
Peace Be With You All
Barry,
Too bad that you feel it necessary to even give this guy the time that you did. I feel my time was wasted/ill used in just listening to you rant about him.
He’s the hero of his own movie–but not a movie I would choose to watch or be a part of. I have better uses for my energy.
By the same token that you or I must be allowed to grow, change, evolve by our own lights, so must he–sad as he seems from our perspective.
The mere fact that you felt it necessary to defend yourself and your point of view in the face of his seeming ignorance may be something for you to look at and grow from. There may be plenty of responsibility for defensiveness to go around.
He and whatever following he has will continue on the path they’re on until something “happens to them” (notice the victim qualification) to shake them loose and change their direction. No amount of pulpit banging by you or me or anyone else will change things for them.
The Law of Attraction gathers true followers only by attraction–when the student hits the threshold of readiness only then are they really open to the teaching.
For some, blindness is a choice.
Heather, your comment about children got me to thinking. When children are first learning to crawl are when they first start to become aware of their environment. A lot of bumbs and bruises along the way but perserverence pays off. That crawling builds coordination, tone, strength, and stamina for the next phase. Walking and running!
But here is where the greater danger lies but then so does greater rewards.
Children learn to crawl and then walk by modeling their parents. And so I guess what I’m saying is that some methods will work better with different people and that just as children have an individual we also will work better with some mentors and not as well with others.
Therein lies the rub; finding the correct method and mentor for you and I’m guessing that sometimes that method and mentor might not be a perfect mix.
Does leave room for confusion.
In the end I guess you develop patience, persistance, and a hard head.
-Robert
I did not go on the site, couldn’t be bothered. BUT I do believe stuff like this is valuable, in that it makes us think for ourselves about what we believe. It is the very fact that we CAN have this dialogue that expands consciousness. I don’t even mind that Barry chose to bring it to our attention. So bring it on!, though for myself I now choose to chuckle at such negativity, breathe in Univeral Love and send it out to the perp. Whether it helps or not it brings brings joy to my own heart. My guess is that in one years’ time Mr. Curtis will have ploughed under and furrowed his opinions on the whole matter and planted new seeds. What those seeds yield would be anybody’s guess.
As a side note: We don’t always bring to ourselves what we want as Heather said, but we do bring what we focus upon. There is a world of difference. Take care of the You. Sharon
I find it ironic that this “fraud” site is supposedly there to protect the “sheep-people” but really the person running the site is a sheep himself. I think his main problem with self-help and manifestation is that it is not taken seriously by “normal” society. My family does not believe in any of this stuff. They were brought up to believe that in the “real” world you have to take physical action in order to make something happen. You have to work hard to earn money. You have to date in order to find true love. You have to either get a better job or promotion if you want more money. You have to go to the doctor if you want to be healed. They are the real sheep-people here because they can not think outside of the box. They look at manifestation and self-help as being a waste of time because in their minds you can’t change your life or your past by thinking about it. They are the ones that are trapped in their current level of thinking. Their attitudes just indicate that they are not at a spiritual level where they are ready to accept responsibility for their lives in order that they can grow spiritually.
Hi my name is Ursula ( I’m from Oz) and I’ve just listened to your audio Barry about this strange guy’s fraud site. As a so called new ager of some 30 years now, not new at it at all, I do actually nowadays follow my own inner journey and I use the experiences of my own life as my food for thought. There is a time to be helped and a time to go it alone, there is a time for books, videos, support, courses and then the time to be with yourself. By far the most powerful tool I believe in shifting subconscious thoughts and feelings that create our reality that we don’t know are there, creating all the stuff we say…hey where did that come from? IS, to go into your own feelings.
The real question isn’t who is right and who is wrong, but Barry, why did he arc you up that way?? What’s the content of the emotion that got triggered, IN YOU!!! Why did you take his bait?? Asking that question will will lead you as it always does to some inner space where you can find a hidden corner of the kind of damage or wound that remains within your system from before……….all that time before when you didn’t believe as I certainly do now, but once didn’t that ” we create our own reality” with every word, thought and feeling. It’s our feelings that hide obstacles to completely embracing the new belief wholeheartedly. Having been sheep subjugated by laws more powerful that who we thought we were for many many many lives before creates residual hurt within that MUST be accessed and embraced, understood and released.
My challenge to Barry is, lead by example and share with us where you went when you travel down the rabbit hole of that obviously very “freaken” powerful emotion you felt when you encountered this guys accusations and infammatory comments that try to lambast everything you do and what it represents because it’ s not until we become impervious to the thoughts and opinions of others out there that we negate the impact that out there can have on us and embrace where our true power is, in here!!!
Cheers to you and keep up the good work.
Aren’t we allowing this guy too much of our energy and attention…exactly what we DON”T wanna do!
I’m looking at the site now on ’slimey little secret’ pdf and anyone who takes anything the Washing Post vomits as genuine is sadly mislead. However, in the article, it quotes old Oprah interviewing a man in Dafur lamenting the starvation and trauma of his people’s situation. Apparently this stupid, callous woman then intimates that all this is a result of his ‘lousy attitude’!! It’s saying “OK Americans, go back to sleep, don’t worry yourselves that your lousy Government is responsible for this misery or that you have a responsibility to stop this. Look, these people brought this disaster on themselves”. That is EVIL and if Oprah found her fat and treacherous arse without food, shelter, water and in emotional pain and physical injuring through the actions of her government, she’d be hard pressed to ‘think positive’. But she will not find herself in this position. Why? It’s got nothing to do with the success of ‘The Secret’ and everything to do with the success of ‘the secret’ and ‘the secret’ is that she and so many others are dutifully carrying out the nihhilistic agenda of their masters and is well rewarded for her betrayal. ‘It’s all your fault - don’t blame anyone else; not the banks, the military or the government. No, no, don’t look over there - you’re the one who is fucked up’ is the underlying mantra mesmerising the populace into compliance and apathy. Look at her stupid shows; all parades of individuals’ sociapathy, dishonesty and duplicity - an endless parade of symptomatic dystopia. Never are the real causes of our collective spiritual atrophy addressed.
Unless and until we break free of this trance, see the bars of our cage and identify the jailers, we shall not be able to manifest freedom.
This is the issue I have with this whole NuAge malarky. The ‘think no evil, see no evil, speak no evil’ does not a wise monkey make! This monkey was trapped and hauled off to a laboratory to be tortured because he failed to see the reality of his situation and act wisely to avoid the trappers.The billions of people suffering from the effects of evil throughout history and today, did in NO WAY bring disaster upon themselves other than by the default of ignorance; ignorance of those who orchestrated devastation and why. If we do not recognise that we are part of the larger consciousness of humanity which is manipulated and deluded by the darkest of forces, we will not understand how and why:- a) our best intentions so often fail to produce desired results and b) the true cause of suffering in our World. Sure, no doubt about it, positive focus and emotions are a survival/thrival tool but if we refuse to address and take responsibility for discovering the root causes of our collective dillemma then we can only be victim of the inevitable outcomes orchestrated by beings and people in highly dysfunctional and spiritual detritus.
The people championing the ’self-help’ circus do not address these issues with intelligence or sensitivity. I know, for instance that if everyone focussed on the creative genius that they are, the world would most surely change overnight and this is the way that attraction and all the other laws manifest, granted. However, it is virtually impossible for people to realise this goal if they are innocently caught up in events manifested by others of a far different persuasion. No matter how hard (or ‘effortlessly’!) individuals or groups focus on the positive, if they do not address the origins of evil, they shall sooner or later become its victims. What use is it to amass $millions when overnight this ‘currency’ can be abolished? Or to manifest a mansion or highly successful business when ‘the powers that be’ can swipe it from under your feet in an instant? This is NOT defeatest reasoning. It is a question which may lead us into addressing both the personal and interpersonal realities in the world affecting our microcosmic/macrocosmic experience.
I abhor Oprah and her ilk for propogating the hedonistic and morally debached ethos of ‘as long as I’m alright, Jack’ her educational institution has been found to be ethically challenged and she did not rise to fame other than by design and for a purpose. Grow up children! Look into those beacons of virtue thrust in our faces as examples of how to live and what to think - most of them are frauds. It is not possible to ‘join the club’ of fame and influence unless you’re ‘playing the game’ according to ‘their’ rules of engagement. By necessity, you will have to sell your very soul. Once accomplished, it’s a natural matter of course to sell your fellow man down the old swanee.
Why Barry and Heather should get so uptight about a counter-argument to the self-help movement is interesting in itself. So what? If something is valid, it surely needs no defense?
Serena above makes some valid points. The selfhelp fraud site is no more fast and loose with the truth than many of the mega hordes on the internet who have fastened their coat tails to the movie “The Secret”. Some of these so called teachers have a slim grasp of consciousness yet still peddle their ebooks and audios proclaiming their expertise.
Interestingly a lot of the teachers in the Secret are back pedalling as fast as they can. Holding seminars to reveal what was missing in the movie or what was deliberately left out eg the Discover the truth about the Secret seminar held in Los Angeles in October which featured teachers Bill Harris, Lisa Nichols, Jack Canfield, Hale Dwoskin and Lee Brower.
“According to Raymond Aaron, who was filmed for ‘The Secret’ and is the organizer of this event, most of the speakers in the movie had little time to prepare, “We just sat down in a chair and gave our top-of-mind thoughts about ‘The Law of Attraction’ and because most of us filmed were professional speakers we didn’t see anything wrong with this approach. However, afterwards many of us realized that it would have been nice to have a chance to expand and clarify our thoughts about ‘The Law’…”
The movie was obviously cleverly edited to make it the most attractive to consumers. A lot of the material filmed ended up on the cutting room floor (figuratively). What was cut out probably was anything that smacked of people needing to take action. Having to actually do something would mean that fewer people would be attracted to and hence purchase it.
Bill Harris I think has covered a lot of this in his interviews with teachers in the movie. He certainly is not of the magical thinking school of thought that many so called self help gurus indulge in. He is a proponent of action as are people like Canfield, Beckwith and others.
One of the most stupid beliefs in the pantheon of Rhonda Byrne new thought is the statement that we are responsible for everything in our lives. Clearly we are not and that is exemplifed in the area of mass realities. We may be co creators ie our consciousness leads us to a point where we are victimized but then fellow co creators play a part. Take the Holocaust in WW2 as an example. The Jews didn’t run the trains or build the camps. Whatever else people might say about their involvement on a conscious level, the Nazis were the perpetrators.
Having said that I am NOT implying that we are not responsible for a lot of what occurs to us. We are just not responsible for everything.
So getting back to the selfhelp fraud site. Dismiss everything he says and you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Likewise with the material presented by some of the more lucid and intelligent teachers such as James Ray and Dov Baron.
Critical appraisal of everything that we hear and read is of vital importance. Lest we become as addle headed as Christian fundamentalists.
PS Secret teacher David Schirmer has got himself into all sorts of grief since being involved in the movie. Probably an instance of where the reality he currently finds himself in was self inflicted.
First off, I’ve never thought of your site as “self-help,” but more as a portal for individuals who are curious thinkers, and seekers of truths, who are interested in personal evolution. That’s why I got on for the ride, and I suspect others may feel the same way.
I think with a little time all the hoopla about “The Secret,” and all the tie-ins, will die down as everything does in the media. It’s actually interesting watching the adulation, then take-down of this subject - especially since it’s just a movie, and one that is very limited in scope. Both the attraction and aversion to it was predictable, as this a pattern we see with anything that captures the attention of the public. Now the broader material, and mentors are lumped in with this commercial venture under the big buzz word: The Secret (which in my opinion, is a little annoying).
But the point is, there will always be someone creating a business opportunity attacking the current zeitgeist, spinning it to cash-in for personal agenda and self-interest.
I did go to the website you mentioned out of curiosity, but got bored immediately. Before leaving I had to laugh…
The Source Material for the “Americans Against Fraudulent Self Help” website is Wikipedia. Yikes! Anyone working in News - or comedy for that matter - knows Wikipedia is not a reliable news source for the very important fact that anyone with a keypad can post, and edit anything they want - and there’s no fact checking! A comedian recently mentioned on The Daily Show that he changed the bio of a friend there just because it was funny, and the opportunity was staring him in the face. So much for credibility.
But, what I really want to say is this…
Membership to your website has value. It’s obvious that you are passionate about what you are doing, and that adds to the enjoyment. Having access to different concepts, and opinions inspires thinking; and the ideas that are provocative, that resonate, inspire further research. It’s cool to have access to a wealth of content that we can digest on our own time. Your interviews have clarity, and are insightful. The tag-team interview style is perfect as you both bring unique qualities, strengths and personality to the mix.
So just blow off the critic… or better yet, write a funny back-story about “Americans Against Fraudulent Self Help” on Wikipedia. (just kidding… we can joke here, right?)
Shortly after I submitted my entry, I was cantering on the web for further insights into an astronomical event of major import (see further down) and found myself reading the following:-
“It is my considered opinion, having worked with the Universal Laws for over 20 years, that as soon as one sets out intentionally to make money from sharing a truth and needs to aggressively market the sale of it, then they have moved out of the energy field associated with being of service and into the energy field of the ego. The ego is saying “look, I have this knowledge that makes me superior to you. I am acting with abundance consciousness and asking you to pay an extortionate price. So pay me for it and I’ll let you see it” In actual fact, the person who is truly being of service need ask for nothing in return. The energy is released in the act of giving and it will, given belief, flow right back around. In practical terms this may mean that one simply needs to cover the basic costs of delivering the message and trust the Universe to do the rest. Goods offered from a place of truth and of trust in the abundance of the Universe will take off like a rocket, because other people will automatically be attracted to that vibration. Originally, that is precisely what explains the phenominal success of Rhonda Byrne’s book, The Secret, and is surely what the book is all about.
As such, I believe the people behind the marketing spin offs and MLM campaigns of The Secret such as Bob Proctor’s SGR are destined for a huge fall, an experience in which they are forced to realise how far they have strayed from the true message of Universal Law”
This is from Kathryn at www.cosmicorder.blogspot.com
Frankly, if I see another ‘pop’ up MLM sponsored by Bob Proctor or Joe Vitale, I’ll scream! Would you buy a used car from these guys? I think the point is that all these people enticing others with the carrots of flash cars, mansions and vacations are appealling strictly to the ‘have nots’ and the base desires for materialistic possessions. If, as some claim, they are truly working with the Laws (note plural) then there would be a one-off package price, affordable to all. After all, true teaching is simply a guide for us to access our own power from within and does not dangle silver, gold and platinum ‘packages’ to lure us deeper into the ‘mystery’ of their ’superior’ knowledge. Given freely, give freely as far as is possible. We are here to assist eachother in manifesting freedom and abundance, as was intended from the start, yet to be realised. Our brothers, sisters and children all over the Earth are showing us the dangers we are in as a family of man. We sit, I in England, you in America, within the cauldron where such plots as war are stewed. I believe it is our duty to tear down the veils of tyranny, to expose the light of our universal dreams. Not to ‘rescue’ others but to make it possible for ourselves and they, to move forward as was pre-ordained in our destiny.
If anyone’s interested, the event of which I spoke earlier is the Pluto-Jupiter conjunction with the Galactic Centre, which some call the throne of God. This event happens once every 250 years and we’re in it now. Dates of import are New Moon December 9th, followed by aforementioned on 11th and 22nd December. The opportunity is to rid ourselves of such deceptions as just spoken of and align with all that is profoundly true, noble and enduring. So it manifestation time of cosmic proportions!
well, it gets down to beliefs and LOA still, doesn’t it? I mean if people think prosperity teachers are frauds and LOA is bunk, then that’s the reality that will manifest for them.
Personally I choose to believe in LOA, because it’s probably not a good idea to be demanding proof all of the time. I admit that these same sort of negative things come up in my mind and you know what I do? I tap on them. Yes I release them using EFT. I even have negative things come up about my coach but, as soon as something negative comes up i tap it away.
One thing that is perfectly rational about this is that I have lived with a lot of negativity in the past and it doesn’t feel good! I agree with Joe Vitale that our main goal in life is to feel good. and what’s wrong with that? Feeling bad has certainly not served me so I choose to feel good and if this causes good things to manifest in my life, well, I will allow that too!
Perhaps you guys are good people and have no business with a self help fraud investigator.But i have seen many people who are turning the wisdom of reality into a network marketing scheme where they’re manifestation of riches through the intention to create seems limited to getting someone to buy there copy of a book or ebook the content of which already exists many times over.In which case a scam blower is in order,because the percentages stacked as i see them right now is this.A self help or human potential “seeker” has much more chance of being fleeced by someone peddling information which has already been printed many times before,than being turned off the impulse to seek development and further study by a scam catcher.Once again,you guys may be ok with your heart in the right place etc,but there are a lot crooks hiding in the self help arena.Honestly man if they had the manifesting power they claim to,they’d be up to more in manifesting than just teaching manifesting.Remember in think and grow rich,all the people interviewed were up to “something” like making cars or clothes or shops or whatever.Oversupply of loa teachers at the moment,big oversupply
Ultimately it is up to us to follow our hearts and do the things that are calling out to us. The Secret was an impressive movie and a way to show us that anything is possible for us. I think whatever this guy with his website is saying is a total waste of time and energy for me. I think time is to precious to be even contemplating what this AAFS is trying to say. My time is best used at what I can do with the positive tools around me, like watching the Secret or reading an uplifting lesson in a book to contemplate and make my (our) life better and then putting that into action! I think its true we all should be like kids in this way “believeing is seeing”!
I appreciate what you both do, Barry and Heather.
Heather & Barry- Great job of pointing out the absurdity of “saving” us form the self-help monster.
Below is part of the response I sent to the Washington Post in response to the “Slimy Secret” article:
April 16, 2007 - Letter sent by Jim Donovan to the Washington Post in response to their recent story:
Tim Watkin’s recent Washington Post story bashing the movie, and subsequent book, “The Secret” is the worst form of cynical, biased, baseless journalism I’ve sen in a long time.
From the outset, it’s clear the writer has an ax to grind and has done little research into the subject of how one achieves success. Worse yet is its effect on the unsuspecting reader who believes the article, which dismisses The Secret and other self-help books as being not worth reading. People who may have been helped will remain stuck where they are because of the author’s one sided attack on age old principles of success.
His flippant discounting of the law of attraction as being so much hogwash is absurd. To promote the idea that people got where they are by “luck” and happenstance is an explanation some people, typically those not living up to their own potential, use to justify their own lack of accomplishment.
Over two decades ago, I purchased “The Psychology of Winning,”an audio program by Dr. Dennis Waitely. With messages similar to those in The Secret movie, he teaches, as most of us in the self-help field do, that we create our lives with our thoughts, beliefs and actions and that we have within us the power to change our lives.
At the time, I was working my way up from the bottom, having just gotten off welfare and overcoming an addiction to alcohol - read more
I am surprised that Barry gave this guy so much energy. The victim archetype is on its way out in society, but there are those who are hanging onto it for dear life. We each bump into it on a moments notice if we are unconscious. To me that is what religion is all about. The sheep being kept asleep, powerless and limited. I did not visit the site nor will I. Based on comments it sounds like he is a frightened soul disconnected from source. Bless him!
I just wanted to chime in on the aspect of this being founded in science. Doesn’t it seem a little silly to have to say that life, which is a bundled package of science,spirit,and miracle. An all or nothing deal, that we have to try to justify how we decide to attain the best of ourselves in any of these areas. I really applaud you and anyone who breaks out of the old molds to help those of us who need some outside of the box thinking to get a grasp on the things we are thinking and feeling but are unaware of how to express these things. LOVE YOU GUYS!
Hi Guys
After receiving your audio post I made a point of reading the articles available on selfhelpfraud.com as I agree with the idea of giving people an alternative view. Even if it is just to test certain theories for ourselves. We wouldn’t want to be known as sheep, now would we?
Although they make many valid arguments, I wish they had given me a blog to comment on. One of the arguments are of countries being wrapped in constant states of war and it’s people being in a constant state of suffering. Sure the children of Dafur did not wish this on themselves, but I’ll bet they have never been given the chance to even conceder that something like “the Secret” could be possible. Furthermore, no one seems to speak of the thoughts and wishes put out into the universe by the dictators and war lords of these countries. Isn’t it true that the universe doesn’t care whether you good or evil but about how bad you want it?
Then the discussion on health, go visit any cancer ward and ask how many lung cancer patients smoked… Enough said.
Lastly I would like to comment on what was written in “The Secret Exposed” by ChristianityToday. In the article a lot of mention is made on how the teachings of “the Secret” move away from the teachings of the bible. Now I’m no Theologist, but what happened to all the times Jesus pleaded with his followers to have faith in the Lord and anything will be possible. “If only you had the faith of a mustard seed, you’ll be able to tell the mountains to stand up and walk into the sea and it will be so”. Now if that’s not affirmation of the power of “The Secret”, what is? But then again the Pharisees always had a problem with faith.
In closing I would like for people to ponder this. One thing all those articles have in common is that at some point in time all the authors visualized themselves as writers. Even better, I’ll bet all of them visualized themselves writing those articles before they ever did so.
As I said, although they make many valid arguments, they seem to forget that “The Secret” works for you whether you believe in it or not.
I liked hearing Barry get a bit “bent”…reminded me of myself when I’d gone off on many a rant before…it showed a very “human” side to his already switched-on soul. Now when I want to “go off” I write fictional short stories about incongruencies with the truth of the human heart always at the center. It helps!! I won’t go to the guy’s site b/c it would only feed his fire, but don’t worry Barry, he just hasn’t woken up yet:)) We’re all ONE afterall, so Love, Light and Darkness to him…
^V^
G.L. Giles
Listen guys, remember the Universe is working for us, if John Curtis is what we are talking about today then the universe has sent him to us. He certainly got my back up and anything that does that reinforces how passionate we are about the universal truth around us. So bless John Curtis and move on. We know better.
Good tip for anyone struggling to gather their thoughts. Do you remember the idea that if a genie grants you one wish, what would you wish for? That so many say they would ask for millions of wishes. I have found that since I gave up the intentition to the universe that I am a profoundly powerful manifestor, along with all my other intentions, the universe is working as hard on my manifestation skills as anything else. So you get everything else through attracting better skills in The Secret. So if anyone is struggling, maybe relax on the personal stuff and manifest great great manifesting powers first. It works! Hope that makes sense
Can’t believe you had to record a 15-minute audio about this guy to defend your point of view. Why waste the time? Are you going to kep ranting at EVERYONE who doesn’t think like you?
Why get so upset? Ninety-five percent of the people on the planet don’t know diddly squat about spiritual principles and laws of the universe. Let them be who they are - it doesn’t change the rest of us.
You must feel threatened by other’s viewpoints because you go off on long-winded sermons when you get YOUR feathers ruffled.
If you can’t take the comments, then close down your comment section so you don’t have to listen to anybody else and don’t have to rant and rave.
My response to this guy would have been “Wow, how funny - Ha Ha Ha”. That takes a lot less negative energy, puts the whole thing in perspective and you’d be in a much better mood.
Everybody has a different point of view, a different set of beliefs and personal values, different ways of expressing, different spiritual paths and different ways of manifesting, whether that’s wealth, power, notoriety, peace or reconnecting to the divine - and that’s just the five percent or so mentioned above.
Personally, I think you’d be beter off gathering and disseminating the information and get off other people’s backs. We all (the 5%) know where our truth lies; and since nobody’s truth is exactly the same, there should be freedom to post without recrimination. And if somebody in the other 95% wants to try and debunk what we know is true, let them go ahead and show their colors. We can get a big gut-busting belly laugh out of it.
Stay calm, cool and collected so you don’t sink to their level and you’ll become the teacher you’re supposed to be. And allow our 5% a little more compassion in your responses. You never know what another’s burdens are unless you’ve walked in their shoes (how trite but true). You don’t help someone in a funk by belittleing them for being where they are. Kind words and encouragement can sometimes produce miracles.
Be supple, soft, flexible and kind. Ranting and raving against individuals who may not be at our level, or even those who are, is not he way of the spiritual warrior.
Your favorite antagonist, mirroring back to your anger and defensiveness (methinks you think that you’ll somehow lose business) and God forbid that that should interfere with your lifestyle.
Nancy Daly
[…] Recently, because of my want to get our MOS community to BE AWARE of just how far “Big Brother / Protectionism Thinking” has evolved into our psyche, I instigated an audio post about the creator of SelfHelpFraud.org. […]
Nancy, you missed the whole point of the “Have The Self-Help Police Arrived” audio-post.
Not only was it done in passionate defense of self-help seekers, it was done to ensure our community, who btw understands this is what we do here (expose “stuff” - good, bad, or ugly), is AWARE of a few KEY facts about our teachers (not me, btw).
And, if you had read the post more CLEARLY, you would have understood John Curtis wasn’t talking to me directly in the first place. However, I chose to do my “ranting,” as you put it, anyway.
But, look, I’ve ALREADY made a post today that pretty much details your kind of thinking - that somebody who CONFRONTS, automatically, becomes not “supple, soft, or flexible.”
I’m fairly sure you’ll have no misunderstanding about my position of “fighting the good fight” after you gulp it down.
It’s yours for the taking here:
http://www.lwlworldwide.com/blog/how-to-fight-the-good-fight/
Certainly, I don’t believe in thought control or a thought police for self-help. However, in order to gain a balanced approach to LOA as well as described in The Secret, some of what is found on the AAFS website is worth reading. Though the AAFS weakens their credibility by quoting an article from Wikipedia, if you listen to the audio on their site, you will hear several established legitimate authorities on persuasion rationally discuss the limits of LOA. Without stealing their fire, I would like to mention a couple of things: Scientific cancer researchers think about cancer all the time. Contrary to what LOA might suggest, they have no higher incidence of that disease than the general population. Second, if LOA worked consistently, I should be able to “manifest” indigestion into Barry if I decided to concentrate and attract such a goal. (Don’t worry, Barry. That’s not on my priority list, so you can go ahead and enjoy that pizza.)
The Law of Attraction, like any other principle, needs to be applied with wisdom and moderation. I believe a sane and rational application of LOA is to try and align myself with what I wish to be present in my life by putting myself in the place of doing/being/thinking/feeling necessary to translate my desire into the plane of reality.
For instance, I dream of studying the mandolin in a famous conservatory in Italy. I perceive the current gap between me and that reality as consisting of three major elements, the first two being the necessary budget and an Embergher no. 5 mandolin (or better). I readily understand how the concentration activities of LOA could help pave the way for these two elements, but not necessarily the third one: In order to pass the entrance audition, I will have to improve my present playing skills and learn to do what I don’t yet know how to do (example: Preludio no. 1 by Raffaele Calace). The concentration and visualising touted as all-sufficing by many proponents of LOA would be in and of themselves inadequate for this task; I will have to work many, many hours to improve my dexterity, speed, and accuracy.
I mentioned this to one manifester who said that the ability was there before the hours of practice ever started, but that I was getting in the way of my being able to play well enough. How about that!!! Oh! I forgot to ask this manifester if, when he was 6 months old, his ability to walk was there, but that he didn’t stay very long off his hindquarters because he was getting in his own way! OK, now we’ve gone from LOA to LOL, but you see my point. Simple thought isn’t enough.
Hi, i posted a message previously ,my name is david and i read all the message responses to the article about the self help police scam catcher.What i liked is that everyone said there thing and no one behaved badly or slipped into nasty or name calling type consciousness,which we are all trying to go the other way and create with intention as a friend to the universe(who is abundant and compassionate)so we try to be abundant and compassionate too and for most of us its not trying ,we are really like this which is why we have met at a site like this.Of all the messages i read i found serena’s to be the most deep as it contained i believe the important message of not getting too caught up with(or totally wipeout by worldly successes that compromise the uniqueness of having a conscious relationship with infinite intellegence.Yes we must in the co creations business be aware of we are creating within a framework which is nice,but the establishment of that framework often wasnt nice,and this continues today.Still, we should go for it 100% or more because the happiness and love and contentment and joy we are blessed enough to be able to have an opportunity to create could be the best antidote to the despotism that confuses and stalls us at times.Also,just something a little funny- i felt myself emotionally stirred up more than usual by this article as did barry.I think thats great! We wouldnt want to be stirred up like this too often,and we certainly wouldnt want to waste too much time losing focus of our goals,but you know this whole fiasco has left me with a feeling of playing cops and robbers as a kid,and brought and immature old schooll smile to my face.Not the sort of thing you want to do too much but good value for a chuckle.Sorry for making such a long mesage-i’m hard up for company and parties .Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to intergalactic consciousness pilots and to thought police! I hope all of us secret,masters of the secret and co manifest a lovely experience real soon,something to keep us on the level for the next year.I know what i want but i’m not telling! Ha see ya
Barry & Heather,
All I can say is WOW, I am amazed at the responses that I have read in this blog about www.selfhelpfraud.com.
I was surprised and genuinely pleased to listen to your podcast about www.selfhelpfraud.com, I actually listened several times before composing this response.
I hope this will be the beginning on an ongoing, productive dialogue to build bridges between our respective positions which I do not believe are as far apart as you might imagine.
Now, I would like to respond to a few points I heard and have read in the blog.
1) Barry, it will be interesting to see if others who go to www.selfhelpfraud.com do see its value beyond, as you say… “do we really need a site to protect us from…”
The site is designed as a consumer-oriented resource and as an alternative point of view. The site will always error on the side of academic research which is why you will find links at the site to Research separate from Opinions/History. (BTW, if someone has a better history of the self help movement than the summary at Wikipedia, please send it along.)
This was actually a recommendation from one of the academic research advisors to AAFS who felt it important to separate out that which has been scientifically studied using sound academic methodology and that which is felt or believed based on anecdotal, personal experience.
I think this supposed difference between black and white, scientifically proven AND personal opinion based on life experience would make for a great dialogue alone. And for the record, I see both as valid. It is the foundation of the eternal dialogue about faith vs. fact but I think it is possible to remove the (vs.) between them and replace them with faith AND fact. Just ask any scientist on her way out of church.
2) Heather, with all due respect, there is NO science in The Secret. I have read the book, watched the DVD and took a 6 week long class taught by an expert in The Secret at an enlightenment center near where I live.
Despite alluding to Quantum Physics, no legitimate physicist (read the questionable personal histories of the physicist in The Secret DVD) will support any claim made in The Secret. This does not mean that all the claims by all the experts and teachers in The Secret are wrong, they simply have no basis is scientific fact.
There is no legitimate research that verifies the claims in The Secret. AND, as a matter of fact, AAFS would love to fund such a study and is actively seeking anyone who is willing to do sound academic research on The Secret. It would actually be a pretty simple and straight-forward study much like studying stress management techniques or the benefits of behavioral coaching for autistic children.
Someone would need to find a group of 100 volunteer subjects, then they would be assessed on objective measures like health, wealth, personal happiness, marital stability and job success, etc. Then the group would be randomly divided into 2 groups of 50.
The first group of 50 is the study group and they would receive a complete training course in The Secret. The second group is the control group and they would receive nothing. Then the same objective measures would be taken on each group every so often like 6 months, 1, 3 or 5 years to see what, if any, differences existed between the two groups over time. Anyone interested in doing this study, PLEASE contact AAFS.
Also, please see the research link at the website or consider buying Dr. Norcross’s book featured at the bottom of the home page. These provide credible studies about self help but, unfortunately, as of yet no one has studied The Secret specifically.
3) To the gentleman who speculated… “I wonder what this guy’s life look’s like…?” We can talk about that, in-depth, if it’s ever appropriate. For now, the short answer is that I’m 58, happy, healthy, married with 2 children, 2 grandchildren and living in the natural beauty of W. North Carolina.
However, in the short-term, I want to point anyone to go to the site and actually click on the links, where you will not only find the articles but their SOURCES. As Ted Ciuba points out… “Oh, by the way, he’s using powerful unconscious mind control in his copywriting. Look at those emotionally charged words in his article titles!”
AAFS did not make up these titles, they are in fact from the following sources…
Self-Help’s “Slimy” Secret - This article came from the WASHINGTON POST
“The Secret” - Does Self-Help Really Help? - This article came from NEWSWEEK
“The Secret” Exposed - This article came from CHRISTIAN TODAY
Without Two Important Principles “The Secret” Won’t Benefit You - This article came from the DREAM MANIFESTO
Critical Analysis of “The Secret” - This is an mp3 recording of a teleseminar about The Secret done by a team that includes a former FBI profiling of cults.
Finally, the intention of the site is not to criticize, there is enough of that in the world today. I believe in the power of the human spirit and our God-given abilities to learn and grow.
Ultimately, AAFS’s sole intention is to get all of us thinking beyond the obvious and to share our thinking in constructive dialogue that accommodates multiple points-of-view.
I agree with Ted Ciuba about the guidance of wiser souls… I am only asking that we question the motives and methods of those supposedly wiser souls before accepting their beliefs and certainly BEFORE buying whatever it is they are selling. Self-help is projected to grow to an $11 billion industry in 2008
Ultimately, and sadly, the message that often gets lost is that, more often than not, those “wiser” souls can be found in friends, family, neighbors and especially the elders among us who are FULL of FREE sage advice about just about any life challenge we can imagine. All we have to do is ask them.
Be well Barry & Heather and to all who read this blog and let’s keep talking!
Your turn!
The Secret is amazing isn’t it!? Check out a similar article at dailycents.com, the direct link to the article is http://blogs.dailycents.com/?p=782
Well I visited the site, found it an intriguing Premise.
I do agree about some analysis of the Commercially successful, woefully poor in contents, The Secret and all of its follow up products.
But I disagree that “we need a watchdog” to protect us form…
The Secret full of mis-information about the reality of The Natural Law of Attraction.
Why not just go to the SOURCE, The Master Key, by Haanel and read and study…
His philosophy can have a powerful effect on the lives of anyone who is willing to APPLY the MASSIVE Action, that is mentioned repeatedly, but left out so blatantly in the Secret.
I was introduced to The Master key, SOGR and T&GR in 1960. Being a dumb University freshman from the country, I read studied and acted upon the premise….
Create, write and plan, form a Master-Mind Alliance and Apply pressure to the Plan Immediately and found it all to work very weel.
Never have worried about Income, opportunity and someone affecting my life.
It has been in my control…….
But I have always applied action, sought pleasure instead of pain as most do.
Always had success, heck no!
Ever worry about the outcome?
Heck no!
Just go back to the creative process and fine tune.
I recently narrated The Master Key.
If any reader have the Price of a Family Pizza, they might want to listen the this Mind Food and learn to enjoy the Life our Creator intended us to experience.
http://masterkey4u.com
Also download our 140 past LIVE Talk Show episodes discussing, dissecting and applying the principles of the ABOVE mentioned book in TODAY”S unique Environment.
The Opportunities are ENDLESS
http://focussociety.com
I recently recorded The SECRET POWER of Think & Grow Rich
It is available to members of Beginners Marketing Class.
I am amused that this Anti-Self Help site has utilized articles from Centrepointe - a SELF HELP method that utilizes brain wave entrainment.
The “tell” article is from Christianity Today. The others? They all focus on the “lazy” aspect of not working towards the goal, which is an absolute must
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